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themann1086

I hadn't actually read those texts before... are those his texts or have you been wiretapping my phone? :P seriously, I sent some near-identical texts to a hot friend of mine a couple days ago. Full disclosure: Not in a relationship!

John

Thanks for another thought-provoking post. For the most part, I don't want to know what goes on in other people's bedrooms. I'm all for titillation, but frankly, I'm easily squicked. Where a lot of people go wrong is in thinking that their visceral reaction to somebody else's fun should be the basis for law.

Sean

"Add to this the fact that plenty of sexual desires and orientations aren't socially acceptable. To say the least."

What this reminded me of is that I've had friends (and somewhat-more-than-friends) in the furry community, who pulled me into it a bit. It's not a major kink of mine, but I've definitely been there, written porn about that.

A lot of people seem to have very specific ideas (rather, concerns) about what that says about me, which on the one hand are a good source of entertainment, and on the other hand can be very judgmental and trying. (Inner monologue: "Great, I just was having fun and wanted to mention where I was last weekend and what I'd been writing, and now you think that I have some kind of crushing body dysphoria that makes me wish I wasn't human.")

Actually, that probably has a lot to do with my starting to identify as atheist. Once I'd come out as bi, and then been part of this thing that was "even worse", atheism became just another stereotyped label that I might as well just own.

Josephine Michelle Draus

I can understand your sympathy for somebody who's misunderstood by mainstream society. BUT, by the 3rd line of the Tigers letter to Joslyn James crosses a line that indicates a pathological need to dominate and abuse women in a vicious and violent manner! Just being kinky about sex is NOT WHAT THE LETTER IS ABOUT! MISOGYNISTIC CONTEMPT FOR WOMEN IS WHAT IT IS WHAT TIGER'S ABOUT!

Greta Christina
BUT, by the 3rd line of the Tigers letter to Joslyn James crosses a line that indicates a pathological need to dominate and abuse women in a vicious and violent manner! Just being kinky about sex is NOT WHAT THE LETTER IS ABOUT! MISOGYNISTIC CONTEMPT FOR WOMEN IS WHAT IT IS WHAT TIGER'S ABOUT

Sigh.

Consensual sadomasochism with a willing and enthusiastic partner is not the same as pathological violent abuse and misogyny. And if you think there are no women who are willing and enthusiastic partners in these sorts of activities, I strongly suggest that you visit some online BDSM forums. (Or simply read some of the comments in the many threads here on this blog about SM.)

Again: Consensual sadomasochism is not the same as violent abuse. And when you equate the two, you are participating in the shaming and marginalization of the people who participate in it -- including women. How is that feminist?

Eclectic

I'd also like to mention that this is pillow talk between two people, not a bloody press release. It might reflect what goes on between them, it might be a fantasy that gets them hot that they don't act on, or it might be motivation for her to tie him up and "correct" those neanderthal impulses.

Just from the texts, we can't tell anything.

And as for a willing and enthusiastic partner, I can't resist providing my own example.

Laylah Martelli's writings are so powerfully evocative that I once read a number of them in lieu of a physical warmup for a heavy flogging scene.

If she can't explain the eroticism of pain, I'm not quite sure what to do.

(Her name is actually spelled "Lela", but she anglicized it as "Laylah" so people would pronounce it right.)

Azkyroth
Consensual sadomasochism is not the same as violent abuse. And when you equate the two, you are participating in the shaming and marginalization of the people who participate in it -- including women. How is that feminist?

It isn't. But one of the ugly lessons the internet has to teach us is that for every x women activists who would like to destroy the social structures of patriarchy, there's an indeterminate but non-zero number who're more interested in destroying the barriers keeping them out of the office of patriarch.

Prof.Pedant

Uh.... If those texts are evidence of kinkyness then I want nothing to do with kinkyness.

Those texts strike me as hateful, disrespectful, and as indicating a high likelihood of being a dangerous person. The last thing that would cross my mind if someone sent me an email like those texts was that the sender was 'coming on to me', instead I would feel threatened....

Which brings me to my question (which I do not expect to be answered or even addressed [I know my place as a blog commenter], and which is not meant critically): How does someone distinguish between a person who is 'kinky' and one who is hateful, power-mad, and likely violent? (and, is 'all kinkyness' like this? or is there kinkyness in which the oddness does not seem to obscure the love and respect?)

themann1086

Pedant: Context. Sending it to a random person, or someone you just know: creepy and inappropriate. Sending it to someone who has a similar fetish as you that you know: kinky!

Greta Christina
If those texts are evidence of kinkyness then I want nothing to do with kinkyness.

Then don't have anything to do with kinkiness. If the idea of that kind of activity upsets you, then by all means, you should not be participating in it. But lots of people do like these kinds of activities -- from both ends, in both directions, as recipient as well as giver.

The difference between wanting to do this kind of things to someone who gets off on having it done to them, and wanting to do this kind of thing to someone who isn't consenting and doesn't want it, is massive. It's like the difference between sex and rape. The physical acts may look the same... but the context makes them polar opposites.

These texts were not sent to a random woman. They were sent to a woman Woods was having an ongoing sexual relationship with. If they were engaging in these kinds of activities (as opposed to just dirty texting about them, which is also possible), then presumably she enjoyed them too. Texting about rough sex with a woman who enjoys doing that with you... how is that hateful, disrespectful, or dangerous?

PhoenixRising

I think a good argument is to explain the importance of consent by comparing kink to martial arts. If two people fight in a ring and have consented to be there, then the fact that one or both of them might get beaten to a bloody pulp isn't a case of assault. If two people get into a fight on the street, then you have an assault case. Consent is what turns it from assault to a mutually beneficial sport.

Brandi

Thanks again for reminding the rest of us to be open-minded, Greta. The media loves a villain, but once again, there's multiple sides to every story. (The side, the front side, the back side... with or without a few OTK spankings...)

escort service in orange county

I for one know many other celebs that have done what Tiger has done ;)

It is way more rampant and accepted than we might think

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