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David Evans

"With religion, there's no reality check."

Such a simple point, but I hadn't thought it through to the consequences until I read this post. Very nice.

Of course dogmatic Marxism has the same problem when it justifies everything in terms of a future utopia. There are always reasons why the utopia was delayed (sabotage, usually)

Susie Bright

I think I'm going to go out with an ax & hammer and bust up a whole chifforobe of crackers right now.

That was one scary audiotape, Greta. I had to dillydally awhile before I could bring myself to listen to it.

So weird, too, on a minor note, when people like Donahue brag that they were beaten as kids and it didn't do them a lick of harm. The whole time you're thinking, "Oh yes it did!"

I, for one, was slapped by nuns and it really fucked me up, like everyone else in my class. We had a class reunion a couple years ago and it was like a rehab receiving room.


I don't get how he keeps going on and on about how "lack of attachment" is no big deal. These are frickin CHILDREN! It's been DOCUMENTED that failure to thrive, severe emotional and psychological and even physical trauma can result from a complete lack of love or acceptance or affection.

"Lack of attachment" is a SERIOUS issue, especially as it was endemic. Also, inadequate heating? He throws that out like it's nothing. But I can imagine that inadequate heating could be extremely harmful.

Those are the things he thought he could dismiss without question... but he even trivializes far worse abuses.

Angel Kaida

Greta, thanks for this post. What with his violently angry comments section, I think PZ felt like he had a responsibility to talk about how this is not just religion's fault - but I was yearning for him to acknowledge and articulate the very real fault that religion had here, and I'm glad to see you do that so eloquently.


Thanks, Greta.

I think we will not make much progress in ending religious atrocities like this one unless we address the root of the problem. Religion -- FAITH -- is necessarily a bad thing, regardless of whether or not it drives people to heinous acts. Its very nature is such that it can only take away truth. It can never add it. Faith is a plague upon humanity.


Great post, Greta.

Donohue blames the other side of doing the same things they're accusing the church of doing. It's the "I refuse to listen to you" tack, the "oh I'm so fucking persecuted and afflicted can't you just canonize me now as the saint that I am" tack. Catholics have a serious persecution complex. I know. I witnessed it every Sunday for over 18 years.

It's all about loss of power for him and anyone who even attempts to defend the indefensible. He is such a completely despicable human being.

On the upside, Colin McGorvan (sp?) from the ACLU was magnificent. He took Donohue down.

Kevin R Brown

"Of course dogmatic Marxism has the same problem when it justifies everything in terms of a future utopia."

...Out of curiousity, how many book by proponents of communism and/or Marxism have you read?

I ask because I used to say the same thing, right up until I actually bothered to see what the early Marxists (Trotsky in particular) had to say for themselves.

Adrian Bishop

The Moral Compass Foundation
Celebrating Our Common Moral Compass

If you are concerned about society’s moral compass and are searching for a clear secular moral compass as an ethical benchmark. Read the Moral Compass Foundation’s project to promote social cohesion with the “Celebrating Our Common Moral Compass” campaign at

The Moral Compass

Never instigate the use of coercive force

Accept responsibilities for personal actions and the consequences of those actions

Practice a duty of care

Affirm the individual’s right to self-determination

Put the truth first

Never use a person as merely an unconsenting means to an end, even if the end benefits others.

Be honest

Honour agreements

Treat others as you want to be treated yourself

Leave a positive legacy to future generations


Adrian Bishop
The Moral Compass Foundation
[email protected]

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