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the chaplain

I take it that Hollywood producers are not beating down your door to buy the rights to this story. It's well told, but it doesn't quite fit into Hollywood's fireworks-the-first-time, happy-ever-after mold, does it?

nina hartley

Ah, yes, the first-time fiasco. Mine wasn't much better, even though she was the aggressor.

Glad you stuck with it, and I'm sure Ingrid is, too!


Kinda glad to see this, because in the era when I first began dating women (late 80s, early 90s), it was taken as given in my crowd that sex between women was going to be automatically good, Thankfully we at least had Joann Loulan who acknowledged that just being two women was not enough. As an awkward 23 year old who had never had sex with anyone at that time, my first sexual encounter was pretty pathetic.


Well, Chaplain, it isn't exactly a happy and elating story, is it? Most people watch movies to get away from all this "realism" stuff! It's informative, sure, but that is taste few people have.

Claire B

Hi Greta! Okay, this has nothing to do with your post, but I was over on slacktivist lurking round the whole big theism/atheism thread that's going on right now. And one theist on there are making an argument that seems to break down something like this: "You can't judge theology by the standards of physics, in the same way you can't judge literature by those standards. It's a different discipline." And then I start having an argument with the theists in my head (yeah, I do that too).

Me: But if you're saying that God has an effect on the physical world, then you've got to treat him (her, it, whatever) as a physical manifestation, and therefore subject to the laws of physics!
TIMH: But literature has an effect on the material world too. A performance of Hamlet is a physical manifestation of a literary text. But no-one suggests that people who have an emotional reaction to Hamlet are therefore misguided. Or that any study of the text must be done via double-blind trials. So why are you saying that for theology?
Me: Errr... I'm going to have to get back to you on that one.

I really hate it when my imaginary debating partners defeat me.

Help me out here, Greta, you're much more able to reason these things through than I am. Could you use your insight and logical powers to blow away the mists that beset me?

Greta Christina

I will if I can, Claire. My schedule is pretty tight for the next few days, though: I won't even have time for much blogging.

If it helps you: Here's a piece I wrote on exactly this subject: what aspects of human experience are an irrational, emotional, intuitive response appropriate for, and for what aspects are logic and reason and evidence appropriate.

My argument in a nutshell: For matters of opinion and subjective experience, the emotional, irrational, intuitive approach is fine. But when it comes to questions of what is literally true in the real world that we all share, that's when you need to try to filter out bias and subjectivity, and focus on evidence and reason. As centuries of human history and science have borne out.

The piece is titled "'A Different Way of Knowing': The Uses of Irrationality... and its Limitations" and here's the link.

And the Hamlet argument is just silly. If you're going to discuss people's subjective responses to the content of a performance of Hamlet, then an emotional, intuitive response is valid. (Although I would hope you'd at least pay attention to "objective fact" issues, such as the historical context that the play was written in.) But if you're going to discuss what is physically happening on stage -- the forces of gravity, the mechanics of body movement, the motion of sound waves in space -- then nobody cares, or should care, what your opinion and intuition are, unless you can back it up with evidence and logic.


In spite of my being het, this post really, really resonates with me. I am in the process of ending my marriage, and sex with other (younger) men is definitely on the agenda. Trouble is, I got married to the third person I ever had sex with (dumb, dumb, DUMB) and my husband and I haven't been exactly adventurous.

So now I'm this 40-year old pseudo-virgin, thinking about playing Mrs. Robinson with a bunch of college boys, and I know my first attempts are going to be a disaster. Hell, all my attempts might be disasters. But I have to try, so it's good to know that even the superstars of sex have had their off days.

Peace out.

Buck Fuddy

Thanks, Greta. I really enjoyed that. My first time went rather well--I got my introduction to sex from a much older woman--but when I decided to strike out on my own with my less-experienced age-appropriate girlfriend, it was like the blind leading the blind. It's like I'd been learning to dance with a woman who knew how to lead in reverse. I knew nothing about leading.

I'm also glad I stuck with it, and I hope I've improved over the years as well.


Thankyou! You make me feel less bad about being a clumsy nearly-24-year-old. There's always hope.

Claire B

Thank you! That sorted me out. See, I kind of felt like there was something wrong with that argument, but I couldn't see what. This is something I get a lot, and it's often hard for me to work out if it's me not wanting to accept something because it doesn't suit my worldview, or if it's because the argument itself really is wrong or stupid.

That's why it's so great to have someone around who's better at working through things logically than I am!

Much gratitude,


That's really lovely Greta. It makes me feel better about my own clumsy fumblings of younger years.

C.S. Lewiston

Kudos for a great story (I second what hoverFrog said!).

I thought something was wrong with me when my own first time ended up being more like trying to start a car on a cold day than racing down the interstate. My then-girlfriend was considerably more nderstanding!

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