I want to talk about atheists and anger.
This has been a hard piece to write, and it may be a hard one to read. I'm not going to be as polite and good-tempered as I usually am in this blog; this piece is about anger, and for once I'm going to fucking well let myself be angry.
But I think it's important. One of the most common criticisms lobbed at the newly-vocal atheist community is, "Why do you have to be so angry?" So I want to talk about:
1. Why atheists are angry;
2. Why our anger is valid, valuable, and necessary;
And 3. Why it's completely fucked-up to try to take our anger away from us.
So let's start with why we're angry. Or rather -- because this is my blog and I don't presume to speak for all atheists -- why I'm angry.
*****
I'm angry that according to a recent Gallup poll, only 45 percent of Americans would vote for an atheist for President.
I'm angry that atheist conventions have to have extra security, including hand-held metal detectors and bag searches, because of fatwas and death threats.
I'm angry that atheist soldiers -- in the U.S. armed forces -- have had prayer ceremonies pressured on them and atheist meetings broken up by Christian superior officers, in direct violation of the First Amendment. I'm angry that evangelical Christian groups are being given exclusive access to proselytize on military bases -- again in the U.S. armed forces, again in direct violation of the First Amendment. I'm angry that atheist soldiers who are complaining about this are being harassed and are even getting death threats from Christian soldiers and superior officers -- yet again, in the U.S. armed forces. And I'm angry that Christians still say smug, sanctimonious things like, "there are no atheists in foxholes." You know why you're not seeing atheists in foxholes? Because believers are threatening to shoot them if they come out.
I'm angry that the 41st President of the United States, George Herbert Walker Bush, said of atheists, in my lifetime, "No, I don't know that atheists should be regarded as citizens, nor should they be regarded as patriotic. This is one nation under God." My President. No, I didn't vote for him, but he was still my President, and he still said that my lack of religious belief meant that I shouldn't be regarded as a citizen.
I'm angry that it took until 1961 for atheists to be guaranteed the right to serve on juries, testify in court, or hold public office in every state in the country.
I'm angry that almost half of Americans believe in creationism. And not a broad, "God had a hand in evolution" creationism, but a strict, young-earth, "God created man pretty much in his present form at one time within the last 10,000 years" creationism.
And on that topic: I'm angry that school boards all across this country are still -- 82 years after the Scopes trial -- having to spend time and money and resources on the fight to have evolution taught in the schools. School boards are not exactly loaded with time and money and resources, and any of the time/ money/ resources that they're spending fighting this stupid fight is time/ money/ resources that they're not spending, you know, teaching.
I'm angry that women are dying of AIDS in Africa and South America because the Catholic Church has convinced them that using condoms makes baby Jesus cry.
I'm angry that women are having septic abortions -- or are being forced to have unwanted children who they resent and mistreat -- because religious organizations have gotten laws passed making abortion illegal or inaccessible.
I'm angry about what happened to Galileo. Still. And I'm angry that it took the Catholic Church until 1992 to apologize for it.
I get angry when advice columnists tell their troubled letter-writers to talk to their priest or minister or rabbi... when there is absolutely no legal requirement that a religious leader have any sort of training in counseling or therapy.
And I get angry when religious leaders offer counseling and advice to troubled people -- sex advice, relationship advice, advice on depression and stress, etc. -- not based on any evidence about what actually does and does not work in people's brains and lives, but on the basis of what their religious doctrine tells them God wants for us.
I'm angry at preachers who tell women in their flock to submit to their husbands because it's the will of God, even when their husbands are beating them within an inch of their lives.
I'm angry that so many believers treat prayer as a sort of cosmic shopping list for God. I'm angry that believers pray to win sporting events, poker hands, beauty pageants, and more. As if they were the center of the universe, as if God gives a shit about who wins the NCAA Final Four -- and as if the other teams/ players/ contestants weren't praying just as hard.
I'm especially angry that so many believers treat prayer as a cosmic shopping list when it comes to health and illness. I'm angry that this belief leads to the revolting conclusion that God deliberately makes people sick so they’ll pray to him to get better. And I'm angry that they foist this belief on sick and dying children -- in essence teaching them that, if they don't get better, it's their fault. That they didn't pray hard enough, or they didn't pray right, or God just doesn't love them enough.
And I get angry when other believers insist that the cosmic shopping list isn't what religion and prayer are really about; that their own sophisticated theology is the true understanding of God. I get angry when believers insist that the shopping list is a straw man, an outmoded form of religion and prayer that nobody takes seriously, and it's absurd for atheists to criticize it.
I get angry when believers use terrible, grief-soaked tragedies as either opportunities to toot their own horns and talk about how wonderful their God and their religion are... or as opportunities to attack and demonize atheists and secularism.
I'm angry at the Sunday school teacher who told comic artist Craig Thompson that he couldn't draw in heaven. And I'm angry that she said it with the complete conviction of authority... when in fact she had no basis whatsoever for that assertion. How the hell did she know what Heaven was like? How could she possibly know that you could sing in heaven but not draw? And why the hell would you say something that squelching and dismissive to a talented child?
I'm angry that Mother Teresa took her personal suffering and despair at her lost faith in God, and turned it into an obsession that led her to treat suffering as a beautiful gift from Christ to humanity, a beautiful offering from humanity to God, and a necessary part of spiritual salvation. And I'm angry that this obsession apparently led her to offer grotesquely inadequate medical care and pain relief at her hospitals and hospices, in essence taking her personal crisis of faith out on millions of desperately poor and helpless people.
I'm angry at the trustee of the local Presbyterian church who told his teenage daughter that he didn't actually believe in God or religion, but that it was important to keep up his work because without religion there would be no morality in the world.
I'm angry that so many parents and religious leaders terrorize children -- who (a) have brains that are hard-wired to trust adults and believe what they're told, and (b) are very literal-minded -- with vivid, traumatizing stories of eternal burning and torture to ensure that they'll be too frightened to even question religion.
I'm angrier when religious leaders explicitly tell children – and adults, for that matter -- that the very questioning of religion and the existence of hell is a dreadful sin, one that will guarantee them that hell is where they'll end up.
I'm angry that children get taught by religion to hate and fear their bodies and their sexuality. And I'm especially angry that female children get taught by religion to hate and fear their femaleness, and that queer children get taught by religion to hate and fear their queerness.
I'm angry about the Muslim girl in the public school who was told -- by her public-school, taxpayer-paid teacher -- that the red stripes on Christmas candy canes represented Christ's blood, that she had to believe in and be saved by Jesus Christ or she'd be condemned to hell, and that if she didn't, there was no place for her in his classroom. And I'm angry that he told her not to come back to his class when she didn't convert.
I'm angry -- enraged -- at the priests who molest children and tell them it's God's will. I'm enraged at the Catholic Church that consciously, deliberately, repeatedly, for years, acted to protect priests who molested children, and consciously and deliberately acted to keep it a secret, placing the Church's reputation as a higher priority than, for fuck's sake, children not being molested. And I'm enraged that the Church is now trying to argue, in court, that protecting child-molesting priests from prosecution, and shuffling those priests from diocese to diocese so they can molest kids in a whole new community that doesn't yet suspect them, is a Constitutionally protected form of free religious expression.
I'm angry about 9/11.
And I'm angry that Jerry Falwell blamed 9/11 on pagans, abortionists, feminists, gays and lesbians, the ACLU, and the People For the American Way. I'm angry that the theology of a wrathful God exacting revenge against pagans and abortionists by sending radical Muslims to blow up a building full of secretaries and investment bankers... this was a theology held by a powerful, widely-respected religious leader with millions of followers.
I'm angry that, when my dad had a stroke and went into a nursing home, the staff asked my brother, "Is he a Baptist or a Catholic?" And I'm not just angry on behalf of my atheist dad. I'm angry on behalf of all the Jews, all the Buddhists, all the Muslims, all the neo-Pagans, whose families almost certainly got asked that same question. That question is enormously disrespectful, not just of my dad's atheism, but of everyone at that nursing home who wasn't a Baptist or a Catholic.
I'm angry about Ingrid's grandparents. I'm angry that their fundamentalism was such a huge source of strife and unhappiness in her family, that it alienated them so drastically from their children and grandchildren. I'm angry that they tried to cram it down Ingrid's throat, to the point that she's still traumatized by it. And I'm angry that their religion, which if nothing else should have been a comfort to them in their old age, was instead a source of anguish and despair -- because they knew their children and grandchildren were all going to be burned and tortured forever in Hell, and how could Heaven be Heaven if their children and grandchildren were being eternally burned and tortured in Hell?
I'm angry that Ingrid and I can't get legally married in this country -- or get legally married in another country and have it recognized by this one -- largely because religious leaders oppose it. And I'm angry that both religious and political leaders have discovered that they can score big points exploiting people's fears about sexuality in a changing world, fanning the flames of those fears... and giving people a religious excuse for why their fears are justified.
I'm angry that huge swaths of public policy in this country -- not just on same-sex marriage, but on abortion and stem-cell research and sex education in schools -- are being based, not on evidence of which policies do and don't work and what is and isn't true about the world, but on religious texts written hundreds or thousands of years ago, and on their own personal feelings about how those texts should be interpreted, with no supporting evidence whatsoever -- and no apparent concept of why any evidence should be needed.
I get angry when believers trumpet every good thing that's ever been done in the name of religion as a reason why religion is a force for good... and then, when confronted with the horrible evils done in religion's name, say that those evils weren't done because of religion, were done because of politics of greed or fear or whatever, would have been done anyway even without religion, and shouldn't be counted as religion's fault. (Of course, to be fair, I also get angry when atheists do the opposite: chalk up every evil thing done in the name of religion as a black mark on religion's record, but then insist that the good things were done for other reasons and would have been done anyway, etc. Neither side gets to have it both ways.)
I'm angry at the believers who put decals on their cars with a Faith fish eating a Darwin fish... and who think that's clever, who think that religious faith really should triumph over science and evidence. I'm angry at believers who have so little respect for the physical world their God supposedly created that they feel perfectly content to ignore the mountains of physical evidence piling up around them about that real world; perfectly content to see that world as somehow less real and true than their personal opinions about God.
(Note: The litany of specific grievances is now more than halfway over. Analysis of why anger is necessary and valuable is coming up soon. Promise.)
I get angry when religious leaders opportunistically use religion, and people's trust and faith in religion, to steal, cheat, lie, manipulate the political process, take sexual advantage of their followers, and generally behave like the scum of the earth. I get angry when it happens over and over and over again. And I get angry when people see this happening and still say that atheism is bad because, without religion, people would have no basis for morality or ethics, and no reason not to just do whatever they wanted.
I get angry when religious believers make arguments against atheism -- and make accusations against atheists -- without having bothered to talk to any atheists or read any atheist writing. I get angry when they trot out the same old "Atheism is a nihilistic philosophy, with no joy or meaning to life and no basis for morality or ethics"... when if they spent ten minutes in the atheist blogosphere, they would discover countless atheists who experience great joy and meaning in their lives, and are intensely concerned about right and wrong.
I get angry when believers use the phrase "atheist fundamentalist" without apparently knowing what the word "fundamentalist" means. Call people pig-headed, call them stubborn, call them snarky, call them intolerant even. But unless you can point to the text to which these "fundamentalist" atheists literally and strictly adhere without question, then please shut the hell up about us being fundamentalist.
I get angry when religious believers base their entire philosophy of life on what is, at best, a hunch; when they ignore or reject or rationalize any evidence that contradicts that hunch or calls it into question... and then accuse atheists of being close-minded and ignoring the obvious truth.
And I get angry when believers glorify religious faith without evidence as a positive virtue, a character trait that makes people good and noble... and then continue to accuse atheists of being close-minded and ignoring the obvious truth.
I get angry when believers say that they can know the truth -- the greatest truth of all about the nature of the universe, namely the source of all existence -- simply by sitting quietly and listening to their heart... and then accuse atheists of being arrogant. (This isn't just arrogant towards atheists and naturalists, either. It's arrogant towards people of other religions who have sat just as quietly, listened to their hearts with just as much sincerity, and come to completely opposite conclusions about God and the soul and the universe.)
And I get angry when believers say that the entire unimaginable enormity of the universe was made solely and specifically for the human race -- when atheists, by contrast, say that humanity is a microscopic dot on a microscopic dot, an infinitesimal eyeblink in the vastness of time and space -- and yet again, believers accuse atheists of being arrogant.
I get angry when believers say things like, "Yes, of course, the human mind isn't perfect, we see what we expect to see, we see faces and patterns and intention when they aren't necessarily there... but that couldn't be happening with me. The patterns I see in my life... they couldn't possibly be coincidence or confirmation bias. I'm definitely seeing the hand of God." (And then, once again, those same believers accuse atheists of being close-minded and only seeing what we want to see.)
I get angry when believers treat the gaps in science and scientific knowledge as somehow proof of the existence of God. I get angry when, despite a thousands-of-years-old pattern of supernatural explanations being consistently and repeatedly replaced with natural ones, they still think every single unexplained phenomenon can be best explained by God. And I'm angry that, whenever a gap in our knowledge does get filled in, believers either try to suppress it (see above re: evolution in the schools), or else say, "Okay, that part of the world isn't supernatural... but what about this gap over here? Can you explain that, Mr. Smarty-Pants Scientist? You can't! It must be God!"
I get angry when believers say at the beginning of an argument that their belief is based on reason and evidence, and at the end of the argument say things like, "It just seems that way to me," or, "I feel it in my heart"... as if that were a clincher. I mean, couldn't they have said that at the beginning of the argument, and not wasted my fucking time? My time is valuable and increasingly limited, and I have better things to do with it than debating with people who pretend to care about evidence and reason but ultimately don't.
I'm angry that I have to know more about their fucking religion than the believers do. I get angry when believers say things about the tenets and texts of their religion that are flatly untrue, and I have to correct them on it.
I get angry when believers treat any criticism of their religion -- i.e., pointing out that their religion is a hypothesis about the world and a philosophy of it, and asking it to stand up on its own in the marketplace of ideas -- as insulting and intolerant. I get angry when believers accuse atheists of being intolerant for saying things like, "I don't agree with you," "I think you're mistaken about that," "That doesn't make any sense," "I think that position is morally indefensible," and "What evidence do you have to support that?"
And on that point: I get angry when Christians in the United States -- members of the single most powerful and influential religious group in the country, in the wealthiest and most powerful country in the world -- act like beleaguered victims, martyrs being thrown to the lions all over again, whenever anyone criticizes them or they don't get their way.
I get angry when believers respond to some or all of these offenses by saying, "Well, that's not the true faith. Hating queers/ rejecting science/ stifling questions and dissent... that's not the true faith. People who do that aren't real (Christians/ Jews/ Muslims/ Hindus/ etc.)." As if they had a fucking pipeline to God. As if they had any reason at all to think that they know for sure what God wants, and that the billions of others who disagree with them just obviously have it wrong. (Besides -- I'm an atheist. The "They just aren't doing religion right" argument is not going to cut it with me. I don't think any of you have it right. To me, it all looks like something that people just made up.)
On that topic: I get angry when religious believers insist that their interpretation of their religion and religious text is the right one, and that fellow believers with an opposite interpretation clearly have it wrong. I get angry when believers insist that the parts about Jesus's prompt return and all prayers being answered are obviously not meant literally... but the parts about hell and damnation and gay sex being an abomination, that's real. And I get angry when believers insist that the parts about hell and damnation and gay sex being an abomination aren't meant literally, but the parts about caring for the poor are really what God meant. How the hell do they know which parts of the Bible/ Torah/ Koran/ Bhagavad-Gita/ whatever God really meant, and which parts he didn't? And if they don't know, if they're just basing it on their own moral instincts and their own perceptions of the world, then on what basis are they thinking that God and their sacred texts have anything to do with it at all? What right do they have to act as if their opinion is the same as God's and he's totally backing them up on it?
And I get angry when believers act as if these offenses aren't important, because "Not all believers act like that. I don't act like that." As if that fucking matters. This stuff is a major way that religion plays out in our world, and it makes me furious to hear religious believers try to minimize it because it's not how it happens to play out for them. It's like a white person responding to an African-American describing their experience of racism by saying, "But I'm not a racist." If you're not a racist, then can you shut the hell up for ten seconds and listen to the black people talk? And if you’re not bigoted against atheists and are sympathetic to us, then can you shut the hell up for ten seconds and let us tell you about what the world is like for us, without getting all defensive about how it's not your fault? When did this international conversation about atheism and religious oppression become all about you and your hurt feelings?
But perhaps most of all, I get angry -- sputteringly, inarticulately, pulse-racingly angry -- when believers chide atheists for being so angry. "Why do you have to be so angry all the time?" "All that anger is so off-putting." "If atheism is so great, then why are so many of you so angry?"
Which brings me to the other part of this little rant: Why atheist anger is not only valid, but valuable and necessary.
*****
There's actually a simple, straightforward answer to this question:
Because anger is always necessary.
Because anger has driven every major movement for social change in this country, and probably in the world. The labor movement, the civil rights movement, the women's suffrage movement, the modern feminist movement, the gay rights movement, the anti-war movement in the Sixties, the anti-war movement today, you name it... all of them have had, as a major driving force, a tremendous amount of anger. Anger over injustice, anger over mistreatment and brutality, anger over helplessness.
I mean, why the hell else would people bother to mobilize social movements? Social movements are hard. They take time, they take energy, they sometimes take serious risk of life and limb, community and career. Nobody would fucking bother if they weren't furious about something.
So when you tell an atheist (or for that matter, a woman or a queer or a person of color or whatever) not to be so angry, you are, in essence, telling us to disempower ourselves. You're telling us to lay down one of the single most powerful tools we have at our disposal. You're telling us to lay down a tool that no social change movement has ever been able to do without. You're telling us to be polite and diplomatic, when history shows that polite diplomacy in a social change movement works far, far better when it's coupled with passionate anger. In a battle between David and Goliath, you're telling David to put down his slingshot and just... I don't know. Gnaw Goliath on the ankles or something.
I'll acknowledge that anger is a difficult tool in a social movement. A dangerous one even. It can make people act rashly; it can make it harder to think clearly; it can make people treat potential allies as enemies. In the worst-case scenario, it can even lead to violence. Anger is valid, it's valuable, it's necessary... but it can also misfire, and badly.
But unless we're actually endangering or harming somebody, it is not up to believers to tell atheists when we should and should not use this tool. It is not up to believers to tell atheists that we're going too far with the anger and need to calm down. Any more than it's up to white people to say it to black people, or men to say it to women, or straights to say it to queers. When it comes from believers, it's not helpful. It's patronizing. It comes across as another attempt to defang us and shut us up. And it's just going to make us angrier.
And when believers tell passionate, angry atheists that extremism is never right and the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle, they're making a big, big mistake. Not just because they're making us want to spit in their eye. They're making a mistake because they're simply mistaken. Read this piece from Daylight Atheism on The Golden Mean. Read the quotes from the abolitionist movement, the civil rights movement, the anti-war movement, the American Revolution. And then come tell me that the moderate position is usually the right one.
And you know what else? I think we need to have some goddamn perspective about this anger business. I mean, I look at organized Christianity in this country -- not just the religious right, but some more "moderate" churches as well -- interfering with AIDS prevention efforts, trying to get their theology into the public schools, actively trying to prevent me and Ingrid from getting legally married, and pulling all the other shit I talk about in this piece.
And I look at atheists sometimes being mean-spirited and snarky in blogs and books and magazines.
And I think, Can we please have some goddamn perspective?
Because the other thing I'm angry about is the fact that, in this piece, I've touched on -- maybe -- a hundredth of everything that angers me about religion. This piece barely scratches the surface. I know, almost without a doubt, that within five minutes of hitting "Post" and putting this piece on my blog, I'll think of six different things that I'd wished I'd put in. I could write an entire book about everything that angers me about religion -- other people certainly have -- and still not be finished.
Are you really looking at all of this shit I'm talking about, a millennia-old history of abuse and injustice, deceit and willful ignorance -- and then on the other hand, looking at a couple of years of atheists being snarky on the Internet -- and seeing the two as somehow equivalent? Or worse, seeing the snarky atheists as the greater problem?
If you're doing that, then with all due respect, you can blow me.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled attempts at civility.
Addendum: If you're having trouble commenting, seeing your comment, or reading the other comments on this post, please read this. Thanks.
Addendum 2: I've written a reply to the most common themes that are coming up in the comments here. If you're going to comment on this post, you might want to check it out first.
I couldn't agree more with your point of view. I am 13 years of age (I go to a catholic primary school) and i see through the bullshit even though its up past my head. Its just the basic stuff like adam and eve or the fact that they have no proof of any kind of God or savior. Dont get me wrong I believe in the basic messages of the catholic religion such as. Treat others as you want to be treated but the rest of it is either to gain power or money.
I applaud for writing this blog
-Caleb (:
Posted by: Caleb Renshaw | November 24, 2011 at 02:38 AM
Im angry that I wasted my time reading this when I can read something good by Bertrand Russell
Posted by: Chuck Starr | November 24, 2011 at 03:13 AM
If there was a "Like" button at the bottom of your piece, I'd click it a million times. :)
Posted by: Julie Wingett | November 24, 2011 at 04:12 AM
I am not sure what is worst – a right-wing, bible thumping redneck or an angry atheist with an axe to grind. You are both equally annoying. Seriously, get over yourselves, you’re not that important.
Posted by: RB | November 24, 2011 at 01:10 PM
Exquisitely displayed...yes, we have tons of reasons to be angry. What religions have done to this world through indoctrination and the power collective ignorance gives them is nothing to celebrate about! Somehow I wish to be alive to witness big changes. Thank you for the anger. As you masterfully wrote, it is the power behind the motor of this vehicle, if we are to get somewhere....on this "THANKSGIVING" day....THANK YOU!
Posted by: Nancy Santiago | November 24, 2011 at 05:47 PM
You forgot to be angry about the hypocrisy of claiming to be Christian while sending young people off to war to kill and be killed; and executing criminals; when Jesus specifically spoke against such things.
Posted by: Spotrick | November 24, 2011 at 10:11 PM
Thank you for this. Wonderful post.
Posted by: Chuck Darwin | November 25, 2011 at 04:30 AM
Thank you, Greta. I'm a former Christian fundamentalist and now blog on coming out. I'm sorry for the hate directed at you by deluded, angry Christians. Thank you for continuing to write.
Posted by: Jane | November 25, 2011 at 04:47 AM
I thoroughly enjoyed this post. I'm working/walking through anger about Christianity, believer's who are puppets, and all the dogma/guilt I subjected upon myself or allowed others to impose, dictate as truths, and the "godly" stink eye I received when I questioned things that didn't add up. I just wrote a post on my blog a few days ago about finding my freedom to detach myself from old belief systems of religion. It was a very brave step in my process. To voice it & not care what people (I at one time shared the same beliefs with) thought about me was a huge step for me. Those sticky fingers of fear can take time to break free of. Your post confirmed I'm on the right path.
I am, most importantly, lovingly allowing myself to experience my anger. Not shelve it. Not succumb to fears taught to me if I stepped outside of the "fold". To not be afraid to express & believe I have everything inside me to manifest/create/change my life as I want it to be. I alone am responsible for the quality of my life. This new found ability to look at my anger about religion & religious mindsets has become a spring board to launch myself into true freedoms I never experienced in any organized religion & I've jumped head first into many. Organized religions are all cults in my opinion.
Thank you for articulating so many points about anger I hadn't been able to pinpoint within myself regarding god, religion and "truths" crammed down our throats. When I think about hell, I see it as a condition people create for themselves by believing such crap/lies they've been told and the narrow minded prisons they make for themselves when they buy into said crap. Heaven always seemed like a boring place to end up in. I'd rather believe life, in any form, is a process in which we get to have as many "do-over's" as we need to get it "right" What's right for you may not be the lesson I'm working on at the time. Eventually, we will all get it right, especially if we have the freedom and guts to do it our way as individuals not sheep.
I am waking up. Awakening to who I am. Loving me--loving you is key. We're all connected even if the walk is a solo journey to reconnect. Thank you for re-posting this article. It came at a time I needed to read it. Anger is a great fuel to change within. I can't change others. Only myself.
Posted by: Lille Diane | November 25, 2011 at 05:53 AM
Just watched your presentation on Skekpticon 4. Just wanted to say I enjoyed it immensely. Thank you . . .
Posted by: Account Deleted | November 25, 2011 at 05:32 PM
Wow - you are really really angry. I get angry when people call me an atheist when I am really a pantheist.
Posted by: Luke | November 25, 2011 at 06:22 PM
Geat post, thanks! Come to western Canada. You'll like it here...it's very secular. :D
Posted by: Lisa Schmidt | November 27, 2011 at 11:23 AM
Beautiful.
Posted by: Nicole | November 27, 2011 at 06:44 PM
haha, great reading, I very much enjoyed your thoughts Greta!
...you almost got me.. angry :)
cheers!
Nikolas
Posted by: Nikolas Alepis | November 29, 2011 at 02:50 PM
Wow, I agree with many of the points you've made madam. However not all of us believers are like the ones you've mentioned, so I hope you're not angry at the few of us who're perfectly okay with you believing in whatever it is you want to believe in.
The few of us who don't want to impose anything on anyone, the few of us who also can't stand other arrogant believers, so much so that we even avoid going to church (trust me, there are "believers" that sin worse than a lot of atheists and still dare to parade their "holiness") and just pray at home with our bibles.
Therefore please, don't be angry at us...and please don't be angry at our religion, because when it comes down to it, it's only a set of beliefs...the bible's never burned or killed everyone (nope, don't be outraged just yet). Please be angry at mankind, who will always find reasons to kill and subdue each other, be angry at mankind because you're smart enough to know that had there never been religion, people would still be dying by the thousands, be angry at mankind because our gift (rationality, in this case being able to think) is also our curse.
But most importantly, please continue your fight. After all mankind is still mankind, it is not our job to self-destruct (definitely not arrogance, I just love my race despite it's flaws)...and if religion is the instrument that is being used for chaos, it is our job to stop its damage and contain it.
On that note, GO...wait, your name is... *scrolls up*
GO GRETA!! :)
Posted by: yalaclaus | December 05, 2011 at 08:37 PM
AMEN, SISTER. This article is amazing.
Posted by: Staci | December 08, 2011 at 04:49 PM
You think that everyone should share your beliefs and ideas. Im glad I am a Christian and believe God's greatest gift (and man's greatest curse) was free will.
Posted by: Odizzeus | December 09, 2011 at 01:45 PM
Thank you for this list, Greta! I first became aware of it when I saw your 40+ minute speech on Youtube. I felt a certain level on...unity with you when you mentioned being angry about poor Galileo. The main reason for this is that I often say I'm still angry for the part religion played in the destruction of the Library of Alexandria, of which there has never been an adequate apology. Thanks again!
Posted by: Alexander Center | December 10, 2011 at 07:37 AM
Is it just me or is the gallup poll graph look wrong to anyone else? Comes off as 45% say no to atheists and 55% would vote for 1."I'm angry that according to a recent Gallup poll, only 45 percent of Americans would vote for an atheist for President." Just seemed odd to me, or I am reading it wrong.
Vantram of reddit
Posted by: Vantram | December 13, 2011 at 11:39 AM
I get angry at a lot of these things, too. It is obviously never okay to torture, treat inhumanely, etc. any human being - it is absolutely wrong to force beliefs on others (no matter what those beliefs are).
The difference is that I am a Christian lesbian - yes, it sounds like an oxymoron to me, too! And no, I'm not thrilled that I cannot marry in the US - that's why my partner of 15 years and I are moving to another country.
The thing is, for me, I *do* believe, and I do have faith in a higher power. No, I do not foist it on others, no I do not condone atrocities done in the name of *any* religion, no I did not drop out of high school and lack education (I hold 2 graduate degrees in the sciences), and no I do not care what anyone else practices or doesn't practice. I think a lot of the time (human atrocities and civil rights violations aside) if everyone stayed out of everyone else's business, the world would be a better place. Less judging and name calling would also be a good place to start.
I cannot imagine going on the attack over someone else's belief system (no matter what it may be), it just seems futile, cruel, and ignorant.
Posted by: Angelique | December 16, 2011 at 11:53 AM
I'm with you. :) Thank you for writing this all out. It was a pleasure you read and feel united. I was expecting a section dedicated to how believers are atheists when it comes to the many many many other gods.
My favorite studies were the ways Christianity stole from other religions to gain membership. Christmas is a few days away, so I'd like to say happy birthday to Mithras and the other gods born of virgins on that same exact day.
Posted by: Wendy | December 19, 2011 at 01:49 PM
two words... FUCK YES!!!!
Posted by: Jeff | December 20, 2011 at 07:38 PM
"I'm angry about what happened to Galileo. Still. And I'm angry that it took the Catholic Church until 1992 to apologize for it."
I'm angry at the apologists' stubborn attempts to relativize (ie lie) the Galileo affair away into nothing, and to try to tell us that we don't understand what the Inquisition was and that it actually saved people from overzealous civil courts and how they (the apologists) are in short so chock-full of shit.
(Thanks to Dan Jighter for linking your blog on the Huffington Post)
Posted by: Steven | December 23, 2011 at 11:14 AM
IS it just me but I think you must have been angry. Anger can make you blind. On the pie chart I think you mixed up the finding; it states that 55% said Atheists Yes and 45% said Atheists No.
These results a clearly marked by color.
Not trying to offend you or anyone else, I am a practicing Atheists. Just FYI
Posted by: Jrod | January 02, 2012 at 08:33 PM
Intelligent, succinct, brilliant, beautiful, honest, and impressive. I am not an atheist, nor am I apart of any large organized religion - but the "witch-hunts" are particularly bad these days, and I fully support anyone willing to intelligently argue a point against major organized religion.
I've also studied, memorized, and read literature about every major religion in the known world, and find myself merely using it as ammunition against the ranting corner dwellers in my local city.
Even using evidence from their own religion, the fanatics will continue to argue. I prefer to lean on the belief that no one is likely to be right on anything, and that by closing your mind to any ideas or arguments you are limiting your experience on this Earth.
Believe what you will, but do not use it validate, justify, or rise yourself above anyone else. Do not use it to intimidate, control, or enforce your values on others. We are all mere specks in a vast swirling Universe; feel your insignificance and be the student you were born to be.
Posted by: Leah | January 13, 2012 at 06:35 AM
I would like to explain what people refer to as “The Gospel” or “Good News”. In this explanation, I will discuss God’s grace, which unfortunately so many people do not understand or have never been clearly explained.
Unfortunately, many people attend a Christian church regularly (or attended one in the past) but have never been clearly taught what the Bible stresses as the most important decision that one could ever make. It is only in making this decision that one actually becomes one of God’s children and is “saved” from His eternal judgment. This decision deals with what is referred to as “The Gospel”. If you have never heard “The Gospel” before, here it is. Around 33 AD, Jesus Christ, who is God incarnate, paid the price for every single person’s sin in history by dying the death of crucifixion at the hands of the Romans. He willingly died for every person’s sin that has ever lived and every will live. That includes both you and me. He willing died a death that we deserve for our moral failures in life. Jesus was brutally beaten, whipped, mocked, spit upon, nailed to a wooden cross, and then died. Three days later, He rose from the dead, as He foretold His disciples (group of followers). Jesus then ascended into heaven forty days later. He currently lives with God, His father, in heaven today. During Old Testament times (times prior to the birth of Jesus Christ – B.C.), people had a keen awareness of their moral guilt, as any honest person still does today. I know that I have wronged many people and have felt a deep-seated guilt within many areas of my life. Many people during Old Testament times sacrificed animals to God as a form of limited atonement for their immoral actions. God often accepted these sacrifices, but only in a temporary and limited way. Over time, God changed this extremely limited form of atonement, as He had planned from the very beginning of time. Moreover, God sent His one and only son Jesus Christ down to the Earth. Since Jesus was both sinless and blameless, He willingly died on the cross as an unlimited atonement. It was in God’s will for His son to die in this way. This unlimited atonement is available to any person who whole-heartedly repents of their sins (moral failures) and then asks God to personally apply Jesus’ undeserved death and resurrection as a payment for their sins. It is imperative here that one believes the crucifixion of Jesus Christ was ultimately an act of God’s grace. God did not have to offer an escape from our moral guilt and eternal punishment. However, God is gracious. He has a compassion and love for people that is indescribable. God wants to “wipe the slate” clean for us, in regards to our moral failures. Through this action, we could then enter a personal relationship with His son Jesus Christ and escape his eternal judgment. The Bible refers to moral failures as ‘sin’, or missing the mark of God’s perfect standard of morality. “Sin” is an ancient archery term for an arrow that missed the target. God is loving in the purest sense of the word and would like to grant us victory over the sins that still haunt us from our past. All we have to do is accept this gift of grace from Him. It is free.
God promises us a way to become morally blameless and gain entrance into heaven after living our physical live here on Earth. Here is what we must willingly do on our part. First off, we must truly believe that God is gracious and extended His grace by allowing His one and only son to die as a ransom for our sins on the cross. We must admit to God that we have failed morally during our lifetime and that Jesus Christ’s brutal death on the cross is the only sacrifice that could ever forgive our sins. After making this decision (accepting God’s grace), we are immediately forgiven of all past, present, and future sins. In addition, we would be guaranteed entrance into heaven after our physical death here on Earth. We would then live with both God and His son Jesus forever. We would be guaranteed to see all of our loved ones who had made this decision during his or her physical lives on Earth.
You could make this decision today. Please do not wait for the “perfect time”. You could ask God for eternal forgiveness through applying the death and resurrection of Jesus to your life within the quietness of your bedroom tonight. This is the most important decision that you will ever make.
So you might be asking, “Where in the Bible does it explain what has just been summarized?” Here are some passages clearly stating that Jesus seeks a personal relationship with us:
“that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
- Romans 10:9-10
"Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord; “
- Acts 3:19
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.”
- John 3:16
As long as you repent of your past sins (moral failures) from the heart, confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and apply Jesus Christ’s death and resurrection on the cross as a payment for your sins, you are guaranteed eternal life with God in heaven. You can make this decision at any time, anywhere. You can make this decision alone with God or within a group setting.
Please know that one cannot sit the fence on making this decision of accepting God’s gift of grace. If one chooses not to decide, he or she has still made a choice. This would be like receiving a check (hearing “The Gospel”) but never endorsing and cashing it in at the bank (personally applying Jesus’ death on the cross and resurrection towards one’s sins).
“He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.”
- John 3:18
The result of not choosing to accept Gods gift of grace, which offers eternal life with both Him and Jesus in heaven is clear. You will live the remainder of your life here on Earth apart from Jesus Christ and His empowerment. You will then follow your life plan and not His plan for you. After you physically die, you will then be brought to a dark place where there is “weeping and gnashing of teeth”. It is a place of eternal regret. Here, you will remember this very letter and how you were told the truth but chose not to repent and begin a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Remember, if you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice. You could be diagnosed with a terminal illness tomorrow or be the recipient of a head-on collision while returning home on that all too familiar, two-lane highway this Friday night. If you are considering starting your personal relationship with Jesus Christ, please do not wait to make this decision. You never know what tomorrow will bring.
The following passage outlines the only requirements Jesus Christ has set to both gain eternal life and begin a personal relationship with Him while you are still alive here on Earth. He makes it crystal-clear in the Bible what is required…
“that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
- Romans 10:9-10
God has a plan for your life. You can watch this plan unfold once you accept His gift of grace. This great plan involves your life experience while here on Earth and continues after your physical death on into heaven.
“For I know the plans that I have for you”, declares the Lord, “plans for welfare and not for calamity to give you a future and a hope. Then you will call upon Me and come and pray to Me, and I will listen to you. You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart.”
- Jeremiah 29:11-13
Please consider what I have said here. I am not sure if you have ever made this decision before, but I needed to make sure that you had the facts. If you should decide that you want to learn more about the life of Jesus and gain a better understanding of authentic Christianity, I strongly recommend reading the book of John within the Bible (NASB or NIV translation).
In closing, here is a verse that someone once shared with me that finally brought me into a relationship with God during an extremely low point physically and emotionally. The understanding of Jesus’ desire to know me personally changed my life forever. Here it is:
“Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.”
- Revelation 3:20
Posted by: Paul | January 13, 2012 at 09:47 AM
Absolutely EXCELLENT post. I have shared it with all of my best atheist friends, since anger and atheism is a topic about which we spend a great deal of time talking about.
THANK YOU, GRETA, for another kick ass post!
Posted by: Karen Loethen | January 17, 2012 at 12:09 AM
Something that drives me up the wall is where the god hypothesis makes any testable claim that testable claim is proven to be false, so then they believe based on the untestable claims. It is amazing how one can twist it into an unfalsifiable hypothesis. It makes it impossible for you to convince them of anything. That is how a meme that protects and propagates itself works.
Posted by: George Morris | January 20, 2012 at 04:02 PM
I was trying to be nice at first and held back but then found out people were taking offense anyways and I realized that it was because of the simple act that I question it. I also wasted a lot of time not bringing up the bigger issues with a religion first. So now I just sit back have fun and go for the very controversial comments right away. You can learn a lot when you do the god debates yourself.
Posted by: George Morris | January 20, 2012 at 04:04 PM
Thank you for writing this.
Sincerely,
A Christian who wants to understand first and discuss second
Posted by: Israel Vicars | January 24, 2012 at 03:36 PM
I am not an atheist and I agree with you on all these points!
Posted by: M | January 26, 2012 at 12:45 PM
Great post... But, I didn't read the whole thing because it's a big bummer that this post has to even exist. I wanted to add a couple quick things that I am angry about: I am angry that you have to take time out of your day to post this... unfortunately, it is something that needs to be said. I am angry that I have been labeled atheist. I don't want any label regarding f*ing religion. Its not a part of my life. AND... now I am angry that I am taking time out of my day to post about my lack of religion!
Posted by: Angela | February 01, 2012 at 03:43 PM
Ok. Take a breath. Your anger was too much and I could not finish. Many of the things you are angry about are the result of our culture, plain and simple. As an Atheist that grew up Christian, I understand that the drive to convert people so they can go to heaven. It is the natural thing to do for the ones you love. This country is so steeped in Christian culture. That is one reason India and China may leave us behind in 15 to 20 years, as they modernize and educate themselves in the sciences without the drag of Creationism in their classrooms. I wonder if we will become somewhat like the Muslims, angry for our own relative poverty, or will we see the light and drop our religiosity??
One more thing. You may think this terrible, or it may make you think. Who must be more powerful than God? Jerry Sandusky. Who else could have walked around and done the things he did while wearing a cross and teaching his victims to pray?? Sandusky must have had God bound in a corner so that he could not save those boys. Or was God just too busy teaching Tim Tebow how to throw a football??
Posted by: Lucas Hunt | February 05, 2012 at 05:41 PM
You're giving me a hard time to differentiate atheist from anger. Anyway, I'm a christian and I just pray that they will be awaken for the truth. There is one God and no one else.
Posted by: ccna training | February 08, 2012 at 11:26 PM
People who criticize atheists are uneducated and think that they are from the devil.I am a christian but I dont criticize and make atheists into out casts, they are all people but they just have different beliefs and opinions and that is their choice and I have my own and I wont try change them as they dont try to change me. Just because they dont get what they want they try change others and make them into out casts...That is not a christian in my eyes!
Posted by: Fairness | February 23, 2012 at 06:11 AM
Stumbled on this tonite, thank you so much for sharing. It's very intelligent and well-written -- and it got me fired up just reading it.
Thank you again.
Posted by: Scottie | February 23, 2012 at 09:43 PM
I think you're right on -- right on -- right on, a very trite string of arguements. In the future, people will host ghost parties in their homes for fun; laughing out loud will provide bitter attendees with a much-needed endorphin kick; and all those individuals who you thought were your friends, will call out first: who goes there, who goes there? This may not be in vain, for the sadness that sweeps their vision fields may feign much in the way of sighs. And have you ever seen who can make this world simmer and cool? Do they like they well-wishers who coo and caw like newly-found egrets? And was that nest destroyed for you, or for us?
Posted by: Mark Abandon | February 29, 2012 at 02:32 PM
I'm with you all the way. Excellent post.
Posted by: Fie Upon This Quiet Life | March 03, 2012 at 09:19 AM
I would just like to say I enjoyed you're article. As a follow atheist, I understand where you are coming from. I am a fairly normal young adult as many elderly people would call "sweet". But advanced soon as the word god or faith comes up, I am the antichrist in there eyes. Point being atheist aren't as horrible as they like to say. Why cant religious people be as understanding as sex are forced to be?
My husband and I leave in the bible belt and I am continuously hounded about my choice, and yet my husband is too because he chose to marry a nonbeliever. My husband tried to convert me when we started dating but has stopped out of respect for my choice. I wish everyone else could be like him.
With all that being said, why don't you "Christians" who are posting rude comments on her article start acting like Christians? Stop judging and ridiculing her for speaking her mind? No one held you at gun point and made you read this article.
Posted by: samantha | March 07, 2012 at 03:49 PM
speaking objectively, i have several problems with the anger
"Anger and intolerance are the enemies of correct understanding."
~Mahatma Gandhi
“Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned.”
~Buddha
"For every minute you remain angry, you give up sixty seconds of peace of mind."
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
In other words, it doesn't NECESSARILY resolve issues, being angry. It can be destructive of relationships, possible diplomacy, or even be self-destructive. Think of a time when someone shouted at you that you actually listened to that person and took to heart what he/she said, and compare it to a time when someone just talk to you quietly and calmly. Which, then, is more effective?
But there are two sides to anger, of course.
"Usually when people are sad, they don't do anything. They just cry over their condition. But when they get angry, they bring about a change."
~James Russell Lowell
"The world needs anger. The world often continues to allow evil because it isn't angry enough."
~Bede Jarrett
“Anger is not bad. Anger can be a very positive thing, the thing that moves us beyond the acceptance of evil.”
~Joan Chittister
“Anger is only a natural reaction; one of the mind's ways of reacting to things that it percieves to be wrong. While anger can sometimes lead people to do shocking things,it can also be an instinct to show people that something isn't right.”
That said, anger CAN be a weapon against certain issues. But that doesn't mean that anger should be the actual weapon used. Anger can be effective in letting you know that something is wrong, yes. But retaliating with equal or greater amounts of anger will only do more harm than good. And here's why:
"Anybody can become angry - that is easy, but to be angry with the right person and to the right degree and at the right time and for the right purpose, and in the right way - that is not within everybody's power and is not easy."
~Aristotle
(it's difficult to control enough to actually make it productive and not self-destructive)
“It is wise to direct your anger towards problems -- not people; to focus your energies on answers -- not excuses.”
~William Arthur Ward
"Keep cool; anger is not an argument."
~Daniel Webster
(it's not. in fact, in many ways, it weakens one's argument, proves you to be more potentially violent than your opponent, hence making you more dangerous simply because you cannot control your anger)
"Never do anything when you are in a temper, for you will do everything wrong."
~Baltasar Gracian
(it makes you commit mistakes, because you're no longer thinking clearly, you're too flustered by your hatred to be able to concentrate or gather your thoughts. This is why athletes that are angry don't win, because they are more vulnerable to making mistakes)
Passionate anger is worse, it's just a euphemism for hatred. Anger transformed into passion is different, however, as passion can be devoid of anger. Passion can be more focused, more directed, but less destructive and self-destructive.
"He who angers you conquers you."
~Elizabeth Kenny
Honestly, what has anger ever created except more and more anger? Think about it. Doesn't matter which side you're one, anger is damaging rather than helpful.
What, then, should be done with anger?
“When you are offended at any man's fault, turn to yourself and study your own failings. Then you will forget your anger.”
~Epictetus
The only way you can really change the mind of a Christian/Atheist is to PROVE them wrong with ACTIONS not WORDS. Prove you're better than the other, prove that your beliefs are more valid than the other. Prove it with POSITIVE ACTIONS AND WORDS, not negative ones.
Posted by: Francis | March 11, 2012 at 08:56 PM
Why atheists are angry? In my own point of view, they are it is because they hate God. I am sorry to say this but that's the meaning of the name itself. Love God and you will be peaceful.
Posted by: iphone apps | March 13, 2012 at 07:59 PM
I LOVE this article. It is very intelligent, well-written, and you are perfect for blessing it upon the world. Thank you so much!
Posted by: Alex | March 25, 2012 at 03:50 PM
Hear, hear.
Posted by: Richard Kent Matthews | March 26, 2012 at 08:16 AM
Greta, I am a practicing Wiccan, and this was forwarded to me by another practicing Wiccan. Both of us found your post absolutely brilliant. I didn't read all the post blog comments, so I apologize if this is inappropriate or repetitive. I just wanted to take a moment to tell you that, while our philosophies and beliefs may differ, we share much of the same anger.
I am married to an atheist. Although we have lots of interesting intellectual debates and discussions, we have never once had an argument over religion. He does his thing, I do mine, and we co-exist peacefully.
Unfortunately we deal with much of the same ridiculous crap that you do....."You are going to HELL" pamphlets mailed to my shop, similar garbage sent to my email account, and a family that is constantly "praying for us". Simply finding someone to marry us (we live in Tennessee) five years ago was nearly impossible.
I won't keep carrying on, but I will be anxiously awaiting more of your inspiring writing.
Stay brilliant. Stay angry. Make change.
Posted by: Lee | March 27, 2012 at 07:02 PM
Greetings from Puerto Rico. Gosh, I love Stumble. Just wanted to say that this is a great blog and that I'll be sharing it with all of my non-believers AND believers' friends. Keep it up. Amazing writings... amazing.
- Kisses and hugs from El Caribe.
Later.
Posted by: Abel Andrea | March 28, 2012 at 09:19 AM
Dear Greta
Cracking good piece - I loved reading it - keep on angry girl, fighting is needed. Love Rena
Posted by: Rena | April 01, 2012 at 02:15 PM
First I would just like to say thank you. Thank you so much! I know this post is over four years old now and I'm awfully late in finding it and it is entirely possible you don't read new comments on older posts anymore, but regardless of all that it was still an amazing piece and it really touched me.
I've been an atheist for a long time and have mostly kept it hidden. And all the while I've been seeing all these horrible things happening that have absolutely enraged me and never spoke out against any of it. It has only been in the last few months that I've finally decided it was enough and started putting all my feelings to the written word. I'm tired of my pacifism and frankly disgusted by it. It feels so liberating to finally be getting this stuff out. It has also gone a long way in helping me with my battle with depression.
I was directed here by someone on Tumblr and I'm so happy I followed the link. I'm saving the link for this post so I can direct people here when they ask me why I get so worked up about these things.
Again, thank you so much.
Posted by: macoftheaxe | April 03, 2012 at 02:43 PM
You should make a small book of this and see if you can get it published. Get it into the hands of as many christians as you can.
Just befoe Hitchen died he said the fastest growing group of people where free thinkers/atheist.
Posted by: janelle diters | April 11, 2012 at 03:37 PM
You have a very nice layout for your blog, i want it to use on my site too
Posted by: cell phone directory | April 13, 2012 at 05:58 PM
Great work, and thank you for using that particular picture for the Mother Theresa's section. I was getting pretty cross (pardon) by that point, and Hitchens' title made me laugh enough that I wasn't screaming in inarticulate rage by the end.
Posted by: Neuron | April 21, 2012 at 11:55 AM